Question: Mr President, it is clear today that relations between our countries are on the increase. Do you think that this historic visit you will make to Brazil can give a further boost to our relations?
President Vladimir Putin: I would very much like for this to be the case. For a start, this is the first visit at such a high level in the history of our relations. Second, we can see, as you rightly noted, that our relations are indeed developing positively.
Brazil is one of the biggest Latin American countries, the biggest, no doubt, and, more importantly, it is a country with immense development potential. Our trade turnover now stands at around $2 billion and we have good prospects for developing and expanding our cooperation and giving it a better quality. Therefore, we do place great hopes on this visit.
A meeting between business community representatives from both our countries is to take place just before my visit. Our cooperation on the international stage is increasing. All of this shows that there is still much unused potential we can develop.
Question: What specific objectives have you set for your visit? In particular, will you discuss the possibility of Brazil purchasing Russian Sukhoi fighter planes for its air force and the contract for acquiring Brazilian aviation equipment for Aeroflot’s needs? Will you discuss the issue of halting meat imports from Brazil?
Vladimir Putin: Visits at this level, at the highest level, have far more significant objectives than concluding specific deals, even if they are important deals.
Brazil will be one of the non-permanent members of the United Nations Security Council in 2004–2005. We share with Brazil similar views in many respects on international processes and a similar vision of building modern and democratic international relations. In this respect Brazil is an important partner for us.
I hope that President Lula and I will exchange views on developments in the world situation. But perhaps our principal focus will, naturally, be on developing our economic cooperation.
I already mentioned this business community meeting that is to take place. Our delegation will include a considerable number of Russian government representatives.
We have good prospects for diversifying our relations and putting greater emphasis on cooperation in high-technology fields, including in the aerospace and energy sectors, nuclear energy included.
I hope we will also be able to build on our first positive steps in military-technical cooperation.
We are grateful to the Brazilian government for allowing our manufacturers to take part in the tender for new aircraft for the Brazilian air force. I am sure that if Brazilian specialists examine all the possibilities our aviation technology offers, Russia will have every chance of winning this tender.
It is well known that Russia has many interesting and promising developments in the military-technical sphere. We are ready to deliver the needed equipment and ready for joint cooperation in arms production with Brazilian specialists. This is an area that is very closely linked to high technology in general. In this respect, we hope to develop closer cooperation between the scientific communities in our two countries.
I think we will also be able to strengthen our relations in more traditional sectors such as agriculture, for example. The restrictions on meat imports that you mentioned are due to Brazil’s announcement that it had discovered certain diseases in its livestock, diseases that have long since not been found in Europe. We don’t even have vaccinations against these diseases.
These restrictions concern only meat products that have not undergone heat treatment.
Our interview is to be published somewhat later, but as far as I know, our Agriculture Ministry is to take the decision to open one of Brazil’s states, Santa Catarina, to meat product imports to Russia. Specialists from various ministries and agencies, including the Agriculture Ministry, are working on this visit’s preparation. It is possible that the talks being held could result in other Brazilian states also being re-approved for meat imports to Russia.
Question: Mr President, does Russia support Brazil’s bid for a permanent seat on an enlarged United Nations Security Council?
Vladimir Putin: It is clear that the international community has no other universal organisation of the likes of the United Nations.
The UN, of course, must also adapt to modern demands and take into account the reality of the modern world in its work. We are, therefore, in favour of its reform. But these reforms should not undermine the organisation itself, should not go against the main principles of the way the UN works and should not result in the loss of the principal instruments that UN uses in its work.
Reforming the Security Council is not the only possible avenue for change. We also need to look at expanding the United Nations’ humanitarian functions, peacekeeping efforts and so on. We see Brazil as a real candidate for a permanent seat on the Security Council, but this issue should be settled as part of an overall approach that also takes into account the other aspects I mentioned.
Question: Brazil is having some problems in its relations with the International Atomic Energy Agency. How do you see prospects for cooperation between Russia and Brazil in light of the role this organization plays?
Vladimir Putin: We believe that Brazil, like any other country, has the right to develop its peaceful nuclear programmes. We categorically oppose expanding the club of countries that possess nuclear arms. The spread of nuclear weapons around the world would do nothing to improve the security situation in the world, on the contrary, it would only push humankind closer and closer to a dangerous threshold.
We therefore believe it would be right for Brazil to sign the IAEA additional protocols, but I stress that we also believe Brazil does have every right to develop its own peaceful nuclear programme.
Russia is ready to cooperate with Brazil in all areas in this field. We have good experience, good developments and specialists, and so this is an interesting and promising direction for cooperation between our two countries.
Question: Excuse me for coming back to this question again, but will you discuss nuclear cooperation during your visit to Brazil?
Vladimir Putin: Yes, it is entirely possible. We know that a third block is being opened at the nuclear power station in Brazil. I repeat that we have good traditions in machine-building for the energy sector and we have many developments in this area. We could be of interest for each other in this area.
Question: It is known that in the run-up to the military operations in Iraq a number of countries such as Russia, France and Germany, and to a lesser extent China, opposed these plans.
A year-and-a-half has now gone by. How do you view the situation in Iraq today and what prospects do you see for settling the situation there following President George Bush’s re-election for a second term?
Vladimir Putin: The situation is clear. It is a complex situation, despite the fact that various countries had different views on how to settle the situation there. But despite today’s difficulties there, we believe that we must do all possible to restore peace as soon as we can in Iraq so that the country can develop peacefully and become a democratic and friendly country and a partner for Russia.
We always had a good tradition of friendly relations with Iraq and we are willing to do our part to help rebuild the country. It is very important that democratic elections be held there as scheduled. As you know, we were the initiators of the holding an international conference on Iraq and I think that the upcoming meeting of foreign ministers in Sharm-al-Sheikh is a step in the right direction. The sooner the Iraqi people are able to take their country’s destiny in their own hands and establish their own control over it and its national resources, the sooner the process of pushing the forces of international terrorism out of Iraq will be able to begin. And the sooner the process of consolidating Iraqi society itself will also be able to begin. Our vision of Iraq, as I said, is of a democratic country with its full territorial integrity.
Question: Will this be reflected in the position that Russia will take at the international conference on Iraq, in other words, will Russia take a clear position on this issue?
Vladimir Putin: Yes, of course. I just gave a general outline of this position. The basis for our proposal to hold an international conference on Iraq is that we believe we need to get all interested countries, above all Iraq’s neighbours, involved in settling the situation there, and we also need to create a forum for dialogue with the various forces within Iraq itself.
Our proposal is also based on the international community’s experience regarding Afghanistan. Of course, we have no intention of imposing and cannot impose our proposal on Iraq. Our proposal came about as a result of the search for a way to settle the situation.
Question: Continuing the subject of Iraq, and also in light of the recent death of Yasser Arafat, how do you see the situation in the Middle East and Russia’s role in this process?
Vladimir Putin: This is a very global question. I will try to give a general overview of Russia’s position on this issue.
Now that Yasser Arafat has departed from the political stage, the primary task is to consolidate the Palestinian leadership and create conditions for democratic transformation within the Palestinian Autonomy itself. So far, none of the parties to the conflict or any of the intermediaries have come up with anything better than the “Road Map”.
As co-sponsor of this settlement process, we will work with our partners to strive for having the “Road Map” gradually implemented so as to eventually result in the creation of an independent Palestinian state with clear security guarantees for Israel. This is the direction in which Russia and its partners will work.
Question: The European Union has enlarged and taken in many of Russia’s former partners from the socialist bloc. Do you think that the accession of these new members has had an effect on relations between Russia and the EU?
Vladimir Putin: Above all, the European Union is our major trade and economic partner and accounts for around half of all our foreign trade.
Russia itself is a European country, and not just because our major political and economic centres are in Europe, but because Russian culture is primarily European culture.
The European Union’s enlargement is part of the natural process of integration and globalisation that is underway in the world today. We therefore see this as something positive. But at the same time it is only natural that we do not want this process, this European Union enlargement, to create new dividing lines in Europe, something like a virtual Berlin Wall.
The negotiating process was not easy and we were worried, of course, about what impact EU enlargement would have on our traditional trade and economic ties with our partners in Central and Eastern Europe. There are still a few causes for concern today. Overall, however, our dialogue with the European Union has been positive and, as recent practice has shown, we are able to find compromise solutions, both Russia and our European partners.
Question: Allow me to change subject and talk a little about Russian affairs. The anti-terrorist measures that you took following the tragedy in Beslan have changed the way the Duma is elected and led to the end of direct elections for regional governors. To what extent will these measures help fight terrorism?
Vladimir Putin: First of all, I want to say that Russia is probably one of the first countries to have been confronted with this problem of terrorism. It took some time before the international community realised the danger terrorism poses.
International terrorists have proved quite skilled at misleading many people about what is actually happening here in the Caucasus, and they continue to mislead people today. International terrorists who pursue completely mad objectives such as establishing a world caliphate or something of the sort, are quite adept at disguising their real aims as a struggle for independence in Chechnya.
The fight against terrorism is something very real and practical for us. This is a fight to preserve our territorial integrity, and in this sense we need to have the instruments and create an environment in Russia that would make it impossible for the international terrorist organisations to achieve the aims they have set for themselves here. Only a developed society, for example, only a strong democratic system in modern conditions can create a climate in which any manifestation of terrorism is unacceptable and can also make the state itself stronger. In this context, I believe that the change to electing State Duma deputies based on the representative principle will help strengthen the multiparty system here.
As for the formation of the executive bodies of power in the regions, the issue here is not just fighting terrorism, although this is one of the considerations. What we are talking about in this case is not appointing governors from Moscow, but nominating candidates for governor that the regional parliaments will then have the power to approve or reject. You must agree that this is not the same thing as direct appointment. On the one hand, then these will be people who have the support of the local population as represented by the regional parliament, and on the other hand they will also have the trust of the head of state. I believe this could well serve as a preventive step to strengthen the state and to help ensure that the state’s institutions function more effectively. This is a preventive measure aimed at stopping short those who have made it their goal to destabilise the Russian state and create disorder in the country.
Question: Some analysts say that Russia is awash with money thanks to high oil prices. Do you not think that this flood of money into Russia could make your country dependent on oil prices?
Vladimir Putin: It’s not considered polite in Russia to count the money in someone else’s pocket. But, being serious, high oil prices have both positive and negative aspects for us. For a start, prices for oil products are rising on the domestic market too, and this has a negative impact on other economic sectors, on agriculture, for example. This is also a negative growth factor for other sectors.
The Central Bank and the government face the serious challenge of keeping macroeconomic indicators stable and have to make a great effort to sterilise the money supply.
Also, given that this is such a profitable business today, capital is flowing into the oil sector. The government is aware of the dangers this represents and is working to shift some of the tax burden away from the processing sectors of the economy, but this all has to be carried out very carefully, based on the well known medical principle of not causing any harm, in other words, of not ending up creating problems for the energy sector. We are aware of all this and are responding to the situation.
Question: There has long since been talk in the West about different models of democracy, the Western model and the Russian model. Do you think that Western development models are applicable to Russia, or is Russia following its own road?
Vladimir Putin: I think that rather than talking about particular models, of which there could be a huge number, we should talk about basic principles of democracy. After all, even within the West, there is no single standard and single model.
Some countries have a parliamentary republic, some are presidential republics and some are still monarchies, but no one sees them as not being democratic. In some countries regional leaders are appointed from the centre and in others they are elected. In Russia, the president is elected through direct secret ballot, and in the United States, the president is elected through a system of electoral colleges.
But the basic principles of democracy should be observed whatever the country – principles such as civil liberties, a free market, a free press, the priority of the individual over mythical state interests, a state which serves the interests of ordinary people and defends their rights and interests. This is all easy to say but hard to make reality.
How to actually apply this to this or that country, taking into account the degree of development of civil society and its institutions, the traditions and history of this or that people, is a creative process and in this sense we probably can speak of different models. What is clear for us is that the Russian people chose democracy at the beginning of the 1990s and this was their final choice.
Question: Coming back to the subject of oil, what were the reasons for Mikhail Khodorkovsky’s arrest, and was the real reason not that he could have become an influential political figure?
Vladimir Putin: Khodorkovsky was never involved in politics. He was never a State Duma deputy and was never a member of any party or headed any political movement. It is wrong, therefore, to read a political motive into what is a criminal case.
But in Russia, as in other democratic countries, there is presumption of innocence until such time as the court delivers a guilty verdict. This presumption of innocence also applies to Mr Khodorkovsky. As far as I am concerned, he is innocent until the trial takes place and a decision is reached.
Economic crimes are complex in nature, difficult to untangle, and they must be investigated according to the procedures set by the law.
One thing is clear, everyone, no matter what their professional or material status, no matter what their influence on various state structures, must obey the law. Everyone must be equal before the law, abide by it, pay their taxes and bear the punishment should they break the law.